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Passenger rights group fears any FAA seat size rules won’t go far enough

Submitted about a year ago

You still have a few more weeks to tell the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) what you think about the size of airline seats. Already, though, a passenger advocacy group fears the federal government won’t take strong enough action when it comes to aircraft seating. In a petition filed this week, the non-profit organization FlyerRights, for years an advocate for larger onboard seats, called on the FAA to set minimum seat dimensions “that accommodate 90 to 92% of the population.” The group… (www.msn.com) More...

James Steiner

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Jim Allen about a year ago 11

This is a touchy subject. I'm a big fat guy and I understand that no one wants to sit next to me. Southwest had the best option with the person of size seating - you pay for two seats and if the plane isn't full - they refund you the second seat. Seemed fair all around. Seat pitch is a different story - if I have to jam my legs into the seat in front of me it has not one damn thing to do with my weight (I'm 6' 5"). Let the airlines lose 2 rows or reserve bulkhead rows for anyone over 6'4".

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John Plocher about a year ago 11

What does price by passenger weight have to do with the construction of the airplane seats?

Airlines will cram as many seats into coach as they can, AND you now want them to charge me more to sit in them based on my weight/height? Sigh.

Im 6’3” and not overweight, but I don’t fit into a coach seat due to my height - no matter how i contort myself, my knees dig into the seat in front of me. If the person in front reclines, my kneecaps get crushed. My physical safety is compromised every time i fly coach., so I am forced to pay 3x the fare to fly business.

Aha, you were right- they ARE charging by weight! All you cheap skinny short people get inexpensive seats in the cattle pen, while us tall & fat folks get to pay more for legroom and /free/ drinks! ð

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sparkie624 about a year ago -1

Simple... More a person weighs the chance of not fitting in the seat... Plus Charge by the pound... Cost more to carry these people on the plane just like a Heavier Package... Only difference is they are not in a Box.... YET!

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Jim Allen about a year ago 6

It's not just weight, it's also height.

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RECOR10 about a year ago 1

Pay what you weigh...I could care less how tall a package is..what does it weigh.

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AWAAlum about a year ago 1

Size matters.

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sparkie624 about a year ago 1

Very true, but I think it is safe to say that there are more Fat People that can't sit in a seat vs the ones who have to bend over to walk down the aisle of the plane.

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Joe Keifer about a year ago 20

There probably should be size limitations on people allowed to board. If you need two demo seat belt extensions to strap in you are probably too large to fly.

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sparkie624 about a year ago 16

And another item... To Safely exit in an emergency, they should have an Emergency Exit Test Portal for people to go through... If they do not fit, then they do not fly... this is all safety... When one of these gets stuck in and exit and cannot move in our out, it hurts everyone else that is trying to exit the plane.

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SkyAware123 about a year ago 2

you must like lawsuits... lawyer?

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William Smith about a year ago 2

He must be or else he's one to open his mouth prior to engaging his brain.

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lynx318 about a year ago 1

(ᵔ́∀ᵔ̀)л̵hahahahaha

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Peter Fuller about a year ago 25

Maybe FAA might make a rule setting a minimum seat pitch, but requiring increased seat width isn’t going to happen. To make seats wider, aisles would have to get narrower, adding to boarding/deplaning snarls and adding risk to an emergency evacuation; or, one seat would have to be removed from each row, reducing passenger capacity and pushing up fares. Wider seats overall will require new wider-fuselage aircraft designs.

If passengers want the lowest possible price, then they have to put up with tight quarters. If they want more seat pitch and/or wider seats, the option of paying more for premium economy/business class/first class is available.

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Blake Angus-Anderson about a year ago 7

How about airline executives required to fly coach.

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RECOR10 about a year ago 13

We will NOT have your common sense real-world comments polluting our delusional WOKE world of self-importance. You, you, you ....JERK!!!!

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Peter Fuller about a year ago 10

My bad, sorry, please please forgive me, forgot that a good conversation is ruined by throwing in facts.

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jptq63 about a year ago 3

I actually thought it was full of lies and dam lies; you just forgot to add the numbers to show the statistics. Such as seat pitch, seat width, aisle width, fuselage width in inches (or mm) variations vs. time to evacuate (without stopping to take your under seat or overhead bags…) results and seat prices, etc… any video would be neat to see.

On a serious note, recall FAA or DOT (do not know which or maybe both?) were performing such tests again to account for (at least) the difference in the size of the – average – person from when such tests were performed decades (I think 30+ years) ago, and I have not heard of any published results. I may be wrong in my recollection, and maybe this was just a – Proposed – idea by someone and is not actually taking (or taken) place.

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jptq63 about a year ago 2

Re-read article: what is / are the official US Gov't numbers -- that accommodate 90 to 92% of the population. --? Does that mean only people over a certain age? I.e. a -- typical -- full grown adult person or does it also include those still growing, such as commonly called kids?

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RECOR10 about a year ago 0

How DARE you label people with terms such as "kids".

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AWAAlum about a year ago 0

How DARE you label them "people".

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lynx318 about a year ago 5

I chuckled too much (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

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chugheset about a year ago 17

I'm 6'3". Regardless of whatever rules they enact regarding size, I urge them to eliminate the reclining seat feature. Even with the limited recline available today, that puts the seat in front of me virtually in my lap. With that said, I'd prefer that the government stay out of the design side of the airline industry. Let the free market decide things.

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Peter McGrath about a year ago 7

I totally agree with the elimination of the "recline" feature! While the airlines once touted that as a perk at one time. Today, the seats don't recline far enough to make them worthwhile or comfortable, but recline just enough to make the person behind them uncomfortable. I was on a flight once where a man was working on his laptop and the person in front suddenly reclined their seat. The laptop screen caught in the table recess and snapped in half.

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Jim Allen about a year ago 3

The free market has spoken...look at Ryanair and other low-cost carriers. People would stand for a flight if it saved them $50/ticket.

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Fran Moreno-Randle about a year ago 3

I will forever bless a Lufthansa FA. Flight cancelled and lost business to plain economy seating with change of plane. When it was time to serve the meal, she announced that all seats were to be in the upright position so passengers could eat their meals without having the tray table crushing their chest. She enforced this while serving the meals and for about another 35 minutes afterwards.

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Gustavo Vega about a year ago 1

You can always book seats directly behind emergency exit row since those seat are not allowed to recline. Check it out.

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William Berry about a year ago 9

I am a true 6’7 and weigh 250 pounds. The only way I can be comfortable is to be in an exit row or in 1st class. It seems unfair that I have to incur these extra expenses.

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Jim Allen about a year ago 6

Agreed. Seat pitch is more of an issue than seat width.

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myalias about a year ago 3

Depends on the person. I'm 6'1 and have no trouble with seat pitch. Usually the head rests dig into my shoulders though, even if raised all the way. My shoulders are nearly 24 inches wide. While a seat that offered more thigh support would be nice, so would space for my arms.

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patrick baker about a year ago 11

the governmental fat asses who will pontificate on this question, instead of issuing volumes of pages instead should invite the media into a room with varied seat and sizes and perform a public sit-test. Also airline executives should be required to perform the same test and results noted.

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Fran Moreno-Randle about a year ago 4

And stay seated for about 10-11 hours as if flying international.

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matt jensen about a year ago 1

Nice thought, but it wil never happen

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Fran Moreno-Randle about a year ago 4

Really this is a serious question. If we go by poundage and tickets are sold online, how will that work? Pay based on a 150 lb person, then when get to airport, step on scale and get a refund or pay more? How much time will this take? Will people be allowed to take off shoes, coats, and almost strip to drop a couple of pounds (I have this image in my head!!). How many more hours early will we need to get to airport in order to ensure all are weighed and fares are refunded/charged? And, please don't even suggest an honor system in reporting weight and don't tell me I'll have to wait for airline to refund my $ as they will not wait for any money due.

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Mark Kortum about a year ago 6

I am not in favor of government regulation in every aspect of our lives and businesses, so oppose any forcing of airlines to do anything, unless it relates to safety. Regular coach/tourist airline seats are too narrow, and it is not just for obese persons. I am not obese, but if I am sitting three abreast with two other normal sized non obese men, our shoulder with causes us to be touching the entire flight unless the aisle guy risks his life leaning into the aisle and the window guy decides to lean against the cabin wall. To resolve I do one of the following: fly business/first, take flights with open seats, or pray for a woman in the row.

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Scott Sample about a year ago 5

I would agree with the idea of minimum seat widths and pitch (and for eliminating seat recline in coach). Sometimes the government has to step in when people are not given a reasonable choice by corporations. The reasonable choice would be for someone to pay maybe 30% more for a wider seat, not 3 times the price for so-called "premium economy", which is typically only offered on long-haul flights. Those that don't want to gov to regulate, even minimally, common-carriers like airlines probably don't fly too much!

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Lynda Cook about a year ago 2

The existing seats on most plains are fine if you are only 150 lbs, but since more of the population is close to 1.5x that weight, seats should be wider. There is nothing worse than having a large person on both sides of you if you happen to end up on an inside seat. They overflow their seats and use the seat rest as expansion area. To charge extra for the wide seats would be considered discriminatory, so I think in the long run widening all seats would be the best action. Even when one pays extra for 'Economy Plus' it basically gives you additional leg room, but the seats are generally the same size.

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sparkie624 about a year ago 0

I have been there before and the morons always want to raise the Arm Rest... Sorry Charlie... If I am sitting there, they stay down.

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Carol Agnew about a year ago 2

You’ve got to be kidding! If you are too large to fit in a seat then you don’t get to fly or do any of the other things that regular sized people do. Period. Your choice. Consequences. Your life.

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Charles Calabrese about a year ago 2

Airline seats are now far below what could be considered comfortable;e or even tolerable. Airlines should not be permitted to treat people as cargo with no space between passengers and no comfort in seating. The FAA must stand as our advocate against passenger abuse by airlines. Without strong stands and directives from the FAA we have no advocacy and are powerless.

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Michael Hallock about a year ago 2

Here's what I see as the biggest problem, that doesn't seem to be touched on enough. A regular main cabin seat on an AA319 is like being waterboarded.Torturous.I could not get the tray table down far enough to put anything on it.
But one day, have a look at whats up in those overhead bins. rollerboards. regular suitcases. rollerboards. more regular suitcases.Passengers don't want to check them so the ever-so-patient cabin crew is pushing, shoving, moving everything up there to accommodate yet another bag. I am all for widening the seat in any way possible.Maybe some engineer could come up with some figures to widen the seat, while not having to take any seats off the plane. Wouldnt that be awesome.
But Pete (who i think is doing an awesome job), should also have some discussions with the FAA as to the sturdiness of the Over Head bins. We're talking about Spirit-type passengers now and, in an evacuation, once they are able to just stand up, they will all get their carryon from above and screw anyone who thinks differently. I mean think of it, you're in an emergency and you are unable to even reach the items you have put under the seat in front of you. I could give a hoot about anything I brought on, even my laptop or expensive gifts or whatever. I will leave them because i want to be alive to be able to hand out those gifts.
Of course people will bitch and moan until it comes to the fact that they paid $39 for a trip to Vegas. So, naturally,if seats are wider, the airplane will hold less people (or maybe just install seat belts in the lavatory), and with fewer, but much more comfortable seats, those cheap fares will be much more difficult to find. The airline may allocate, say, 5 seats for the cheapest fare. But they are a business, just like any other business, and must make money somehow.It is and has been a terrible dilemma for a long long time.I am very hopeful that with such an intelligent man in charge of the Department Of Transportation, safety aspects will be issue #1 to solve.

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Edgar Murphy about a year ago 3

I spend a lot of time on YouTube. Now they are interrupting videos with ads for a premium service that eliminates ads. Their ads. That's not a subscription service, that's blackmail.
Same situation with the airlines. They annoy you until you pay more (upgrade) for them to stop annoying you. Apparently it is working.

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RECOR10 about a year ago 3

Huh?

I pay more for my seats...know what? I get more seat within the confines of my seat....wow. Next thing you know, restaurants will charge more for better things too.....

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sparkie624 about a year ago 3

I would love to see the Airlines start Charging by the pound. The Heavier the Passenger the more fuel it takes to takeoff, and Climb as well as Stop on the Runway with TR's... It is fact it cost more to get a heavy plane off the ground then a light one.... FEDEX and UPS have been doing that for decades.. What is wrong with stepping on the scales to get your Ticket Price... We accept it with our package.... Same way as shipping a Pet via Air... I am sure I will get a Down Vote, but what is wrong with that other than fat people have to pay more of which they should as it cost more to move them.

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SkyAware123 about a year ago 0

tall people weigh more too. Not their fault they are tall (unlike fat people)

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Nigel Rigg about a year ago 1

At 5'5" and 139lbs this initiative gets my vote! ð¤£ð¤£

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Arthur Netteler about a year ago 1

I am a 70yo Retired Cargo Pilot (18 years). Wife & I just (last night), returned from a Round Trip to (Budapest, Hungary from Midland, TX). The "SEATING" on ALL but one of our 6 Flights, WAS HORRIBLE! I am 6 foot 225 pounds.. And I could not even put the Tray Table down on the United 777 from Denver to Munich, Germany. 9 hours of the WORST SEATING I HAVE EVER HAD! I did not even TRY to use the Restroom on that LONG Flight as I would not be able to get out of my seat, without making 3-4 PEOPLE MOVE even across the Isle! only Flight that was even TOLERABLE was the LAST FLIGHT from Houston, TX to Midland, TX on an OLD AB 319 100. And least I could get my TRAY TABLE DOWN, even if it was only 1 hour Flight. The Flight Crew had to assist me in getting out of the Seat on the Budapest to Frankfort, Germany Flight #4 (starting the return home). The AB 321 was SO CRAMPTED that an Elderly Woman refused to take her TINY SEAT and left the Plane to go by car for 10 HOURS instead! We traveled for 21 HOURS going and 23 hours returning. Using in all 6 Flights totaling 11 1/2 in Air Going, & 13 in Air Returning. We are DONE FLYING as even going on our Annual Philippines Trip has become a HORRIBLE CONDITIONS of TRAVEL!

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Pavel Rodriguez about a year ago 1

I do not believe what is tried in fat or scraggy people, is on the excessive dream in the airlines and the galloping inflation in the world.

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Bruce Johnson about a year ago 1

Proper link for the story:
<a href="https://thepointsguy.com/news/faa-seat-rules-petition/">https://thepointsguy.com/news/faa-seat-rules-petition/</a>

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AWAAlum about a year ago 1

Common knowledge shows people (particularly Americans) are becoming larger and larger. How then does it make any sense that seats for people are becoming smaller and smaller? Common sense simply must kick in soon, wouldn't you think?

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Tracey Morgan about a year ago 1

Could a few rows with the configuration [extra-wide, normal, child] work? Put the kids, 'cellos and super-models next to the window. The premium for the extra-wide would subsidise the child-width seat.
We should always be weighed with all our luggage AND duty-free purchases when determining what excess baggage fees are payable.
People who do not check luggage should be given an extra couple of kilos' allowance for carry-on.

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Brian Higgins about a year ago 1

There are statistics for the percentile height/weight of the "normal" population... the military use them in their contracts so the egonometics work for war fighters. Aircraft are designed for evacuation criteria for the number of exits VS number of passengers.I guarantee that the people they use to certify evacuation are not 6 foot or above. Seat, isle and knee space should be used that fit the "normal" human population with a reasonable body mass index and evacuation certification should use those same people. BTW, I'm also for charging by the pound.

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EMK69 about a year ago 0

It's called a Gym. Lose the weight or drive. Tired of hearing fat people scream they have more rights than the rest of us.

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jeff slack about a year ago 6

You are so right but any of us saying so are getting a vote down because chances are the large individual commenting here does not see the problem as their problem.

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RECOR10 about a year ago 3

I do identify as morbidly obese. At the same time, I do not live up to many of society's typical parameters of a disgusting morbidly obese person (heck, I can even see my toes!). Despite the fact that I weigh less than a typical American, the fact that I recently had a 12 hour flight (British Air) and was quite comfortable....well, I am a victim.

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C. W. GRADY about a year ago 1

You are assuming that all people who can't fit in the seat are fat because they ate too much, too often. Might be the case with some, but lets not make a generalization about people you don't know. I'm guessing you have a problem with amputees, quadriplegics and those with birth defects. There is an old expression about a shoe, a pebble and your eye. In your case, it might be worth the time to look it up and consider it.

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Etienne Daniels about a year ago 5

He did just mention part of the problem and a possible solution, the rest are your words. Keep ignoring the US figures about overweight, obesity and diabetic. Food intake, daily exercise (not necessary a gym) and the right mindset can have an influence on your weight for more than 90% of the population.

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aurodoc about a year ago 1

Look at the percentage of obesity by country on Google. The US comes in at 37 percent. Most European countries have far less obesity and since many in the US population have come from European stock it would be tough to blame genetics. Why are Europeans and Far east populations thinner? I suspect diet(both content and portion size) and walking are big differences.

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Etienne Daniels about a year ago 1

Partly correct many people in the US are overweight or even obese and diabetic. Let's blame the aircraft industry and leave the food industry, educational institutions and health care people alone.

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Michael Dealey about a year ago 3

I wondered if the conversation would come around to this. Wasn't going to bring it up because it seemed off topic. But you're absolutely right.

Of course, what most people don't get, is that even people who do not overeat can become obese and it truly isn't their fault.

You can't just blame the meteoric increase in obese people on lack of exercise and eating too much. It's true, most Americans are nowhere near as active as they were 60 years ago (for a myriad of reasons) but that doesn't account for the whole problem.

The food supply in this country is literally poison.

We have genetically modified everything now, whith WHEAT being the biggest problem. GMO wheat negatively affects most people's thyroid function, causing a slow metabolism. It also causes "wheat belly" (there's an eye-opening book of the same name).

There's high-fructose corn syrup in literally everything. Chemically, It's just a couple of atoms away from being alcohol, which the body cannot digest, and the liver cannot fully break down, so it gets stored as fat. This is why we now have children ending up with cirrhosis of the liver and even hepatitis -- not from alcohol or a virus, but from *sugar*.

Do I even need to mention fast food? Just read the ingredients in practically anything you pick up. If you can't pronounce it, it isn't really "food". The FDA amazingly allows many known carcinogens in the American food supply that are completely banned in Europe because of their toxicity. Some are cancer causing, some affect the endocrine system (and therefore hormones and metabolism) and some even cause genetic damage/mutation.

We didn't have this epidemic of obese people (especially in children) 60 years ago.
When they took the saturated fat out of everything back in the 70s (based on bad science, politics and industrial greed), they replaced it with salt and sugar so it would still taste good.

For all you self-professed overweight people here, "fat" may not be your problem at all.
The food pyramid is upside down -- and not by accident.

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Michael Dealey about a year ago 2

I wondered if the conversation would come around to this. Wasn't going to bring it up because it seemed off topic. But you're absolutely right.

Of course, what most people don't get, is that even people who do not overeat can become obese and it truly isn't their fault.

You can't just blame the meteoric increase in obese people on lack of exercise and eating too much. It's true, most Americans are nowhere near as active as they were 60 years ago (for a myriad of reasons) but that doesn't account for the whole problem.

The food supply is poison, literally.

We have genetically modified everything now, whit WHEAT being the biggest problem. GMO wheat negatively affects most people's thyroid, causing a slow metabolism. It also causes "wheat belly" (there's an eye-opening book of the same name).

There's high-fructose corn syrup in literally everything now. Chemically, It's just a couple of atoms away from being alcohol, which the body cannot digest, and the liver cannot fully break down, so it gets stored as fat. This is why we now have children ending up with cirrhosis of the liver and even hepatitis -- not from alcohol or a virus, but from *sugar*.

Do I even need to mention fast food? Just read the ingredients in just about anything. If you can't pronounce it, it isn't really "food". The FDA amazingly allows many known carcinogens in the American food supply that are completely banned in Europe because of their toxicity. Some are cancer causing, some affect the endocrine system (and therefore hormones and metabolism) and some even cause genetic damage/mutation.

We didn't have this epidemic of obese people (especially in children) 60 years ago.
When they took the saturated fat out of everything back in the 70s (based on bad science and politics and industrial greed), they replaced it with salt and sugar so it would still taste good.

For all you self-professed overweight people here, "fat" may not be your problem at all.
The food pyramid is upside down -- and not accidentally.

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RECOR10 about a year ago -1

I take a different view. I have not once ever seen Ronald McDonald and the Hamburgler hold down a fat ass kid and shove multiple Whoppers down his gullet. I also have not seen Snap Cracke and Pop mixing up marshmallows and forcing little girls to ingest it either....

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sparkie624 about a year ago -1

So Many would not Have Some Much to complain about if they were not so FAT to begin with! Maybe it is not an airline problem, but a Personal problem with a Lack of control of food intake! I have never had an issue with seat size... But when you have one of those behemoth's that raise the armrest and expects to share my seat.. Sorry Charlie... I cannot have compassion here... What is wrong with people that because they get FAT that it is the Airline seat that is to small..

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C. W. GRADY about a year ago 6

Well, lucky you, Sparkie. l have trouble fitting into the standard airline seat, and while I am 6'8" and 285 pounds, few would call me fat. Well, some might, but only once.

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RECOR10 about a year ago 2

Yer fat, yer fat. There, twice.

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lynx318 about a year ago 1

"Well, some might, but only once."
So you sat on them??? (´∀｀)ʱªʱªʱª

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patrick baker about a year ago 0

what is the cure for halitosis of the soul? seek it out and use it.....

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jeff slack about a year ago 1

hmmm, throwing rocks at glasshouses?
Buy yourself some Listerine.

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jeff slack about a year ago -1

Waiting for Airlines to wake up and charge by the lb. for a seat.
I can not believe the size of North Americans.

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ewrcap about a year ago 1

If you want or need a big seat, YOU pay more. Quite simple. These guys want to make the whole world safe for the grossly obese and WE have to pay. There should be a “sizer” like for baggage. If your big ass doesn’t fit, there’s an overcharge.

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RECOR10 about a year ago -1

Simple solution. Pay what you weight. There, fair for everyone! We also should have the clothing in stores on racks to a width that if you can not fit between the racks you can not fit into what is on them. This would keep the fat chicks out of yoga pants (in a perfect world).

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aurodoc about a year ago 3

Everyone has a BMI index number based on height and weight, a BMI of 30 is labeled obese.
You can have 2 or 3 rows with 2 wider seats per side and charge 1.5 times the normal ticket cost for obese passengers that cannot sit in a standard width seat. Hopefully you wouldn't need more than a couple of rows but maybe I am underestimating.

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blueashflyer about a year ago 5

According to that Government health-created BMI chart, Shaquille O'Neal is considered MORBIDLY OBESE. Even though he can run up and down the floor for 48 mins, jump up and push a ball through a hoop 10 feet in the air.

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aurodoc about a year ago 1

Have you seen him lately? He is obese and I doubt he can run up the court now for 3 minutes. He would not be able to fit in a standard seat and everyone would benefit from a person of that size sitting in a "large person " seat. I don't think he is sitting in the back of the plane anyway.

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Bob Hanson about a year ago 3

Shaq did the 15 questions on Colbert a while back.

Q: aisle or window
A: private

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victorbravo77 about a year ago 1

BMI is a ruse. Muscular people have high BMI numbers.

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victorbravo77 about a year ago 2

Some thin athletes I know are extraordiarily tall.

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sparkie624 about a year ago 1

I would support that without issue... I have been saying for decades that people should step on the scales so that the plane can have a better and more accurate weight and balance... The basic assumption that we all weigh the same is very bogus info to say the least.

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lynx318 about a year ago 0

Just got sit for a bit at the local mall to see the percentage of 'horizontally enhanced' people that walk passed to realise where seat sizes need to go, and yes weight of passengers should be taken for accurate charging. Who knows, maybe this might encourage some to take up diets and fitness programs.

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seacall2 about a year ago 0

The issue is not what the airlines will charge, but what will be physically required to exist in the plane.
Many who think everyone can stay fit and trim by being better people have a surprise waiting for you down the line.For now, consider yourself lucky that your ealth,genetics,location, and economic status allow you to be the shape you are. A lot goes into that equation, and the explosion in American size has a lot to do with hormones in meat, gmo wheat, and even artificial sweeteners that upset the metabolism. The blame lies squarely on the food industry, and your gymbrain attitude is abhorrent.

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