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NWA 188 Captain Explains Why Flight Overshot Minneapolis
Ever since the pilots of NWA 188 overflew their Minneapolis destination, speculation has been rampant about what actually happened in the cockpit. It was widely assumed that the pilots had fallen asleep. I’ve just posted a long email, originally reported by the Dallas Morning News, which gives the full details of what happened on the flight as reported by Captain Tim Cheney to a friend. (www.maxtrescott.com) और अधिक...Sort type: [Top] [Newest]
extra ride for the money :)
Some very interesting comments.
I think the whle thing has been blown out of proportion. Granted these two pilots screwed up and received their punishment, but no one was hurt, they realized their mistake and landed the plane safely.
In Fact I find the whole incident rather humerous.
I also find the media likes to try and sound like experts on it but they don't have a clue what they are talking about half the time. They make fools of themself with some of their reporting.
I think the whle thing has been blown out of proportion. Granted these two pilots screwed up and received their punishment, but no one was hurt, they realized their mistake and landed the plane safely.
In Fact I find the whole incident rather humerous.
I also find the media likes to try and sound like experts on it but they don't have a clue what they are talking about half the time. They make fools of themself with some of their reporting.
Chatter from Winnepeg.... you gotta be kidding me.
When a crew is given a frequency change on radio number 1, they dial in the new frequency on radio number 2. They then punch the radio number 2 button and ESTABLISH TWO-WAY COMMUNICATIONS with the receiving controller. If they do not get a response on that frequency in a few seconds (less than 30), they punch the radio number 1 button and go back and ask for the correct frequency. There is NO EXCUSE for losing radio contact at all, much less for almost an hour.
Read the lengthy he-said-he-said above submitted by our FlightAware colleague, jhwenger, then [color=red]Do the Math[/color]. The crew state that they had their laptops open for a combined total of 7 minutes! But they were out of communications from 7:23PM (CDT) to 8:14PM - a total of 51 minutes.
The assertion that ATC "lost" NWA188 is obviously made by somebody with no professional aviation background. And though I don't know what the WSJ said that applies to them as well.
When NWA188 physically entered the sector which they had been instructed to contact and that controller had not established two-way communications with the flight, the receiving sector will call the transferring sector and ask them to contact NWA188 and give him the correct frequency again. This happens every day and the transcript will bear this out.
There might be a [color=red]plausible[/color] reason for this incident to have occurred but, except for the [color=red]fell asleep[/color] option, I haven't heard one yet. What I find particularly interesting is how lawyers muddy-up the issue and generate sympathy (inserting church, community, teary FAA guy, son going in the army) for the perpetrators of what could have been a very real tragedy. The especially bad news is how many people fall for this crock.
Should these guys have their licenses permanently revoked? Not sure about the permanent part. Should they have told the truth from the get-go? Absolutely.
Here are the charges the FAA filed against the crew of NWA188.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilots-revocation-letter.pdf[/url]
Here is what the crew of NWA188 have to say in response to the FAA charges.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilotappeals.pdf[/url]
When a crew is given a frequency change on radio number 1, they dial in the new frequency on radio number 2. They then punch the radio number 2 button and ESTABLISH TWO-WAY COMMUNICATIONS with the receiving controller. If they do not get a response on that frequency in a few seconds (less than 30), they punch the radio number 1 button and go back and ask for the correct frequency. There is NO EXCUSE for losing radio contact at all, much less for almost an hour.
Read the lengthy he-said-he-said above submitted by our FlightAware colleague, jhwenger, then [color=red]Do the Math[/color]. The crew state that they had their laptops open for a combined total of 7 minutes! But they were out of communications from 7:23PM (CDT) to 8:14PM - a total of 51 minutes.
The assertion that ATC "lost" NWA188 is obviously made by somebody with no professional aviation background. And though I don't know what the WSJ said that applies to them as well.
When NWA188 physically entered the sector which they had been instructed to contact and that controller had not established two-way communications with the flight, the receiving sector will call the transferring sector and ask them to contact NWA188 and give him the correct frequency again. This happens every day and the transcript will bear this out.
There might be a [color=red]plausible[/color] reason for this incident to have occurred but, except for the [color=red]fell asleep[/color] option, I haven't heard one yet. What I find particularly interesting is how lawyers muddy-up the issue and generate sympathy (inserting church, community, teary FAA guy, son going in the army) for the perpetrators of what could have been a very real tragedy. The especially bad news is how many people fall for this crock.
Should these guys have their licenses permanently revoked? Not sure about the permanent part. Should they have told the truth from the get-go? Absolutely.
Here are the charges the FAA filed against the crew of NWA188.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilots-revocation-letter.pdf[/url]
Here is what the crew of NWA188 have to say in response to the FAA charges.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilotappeals.pdf[/url]
Chatter from Winnepeg.... you gotta be kidding me.
When a crew is given a frequency change on radio number 1, they dial in the new frequency on radio number 2. They then punch the radio number 2 button and ESTABLISH TWO-WAY COMMUNICATIONS with the receiving controller. If they do not get a response on that frequency in a few seconds (less than 30), they punch the radio number 1 button and go back and ask for the correct frequency. There is NO EXCUSE for losing radio contact at all, much less for almost an hour.
Read the lengthy he-said-he-said above submitted by our FlightAware colleague, jhwenger, then [color=red]Do the Math[/color]. The crew state that they had their laptops open for a combined total of 7 minutes! But they were out of communications from 7:23PM (CDT) to 8:14PM - a total of 51 minutes.
The assertion that ATC "lost" NWA188 is obviously made by somebody with no professional aviation background. And though I don't know what the WSJ said that applies to them as well.
When NWA188 physically entered the sector which they had been instructed to contact and that controller had not established two-way communications with the flight, the receiving sector will call the transferring sector and ask them to contact NWA188 and give him the correct frequency again. This happens every day and the transcript will bear this out.
There might be a [color=red]plausible[/color] reason for this incident to have occurred but, except for the [color=red]fell asleep[/color] option, I haven't heard one yet. What I find particularly interesting is how lawyers muddy-up the issue and generate sympathy (inserting church, community, teary FAA guy, son going in the army) for the perpetrators of what could have been a very real tragedy. The especially bad news is how many people fall for this crock.
Should these guys have their licenses permanently revoked? Not sure about the permanent part. Should they have told the truth from the get-go? Absolutely.
Here are the charges the FAA filed against the crew of NWA188.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilots-revocation-letter.pdf[/url]
Here is what the crew of NWA188 have to say in response to the FAA charges.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilotappeals.pdf[/url]
When a crew is given a frequency change on radio number 1, they dial in the new frequency on radio number 2. They then punch the radio number 2 button and ESTABLISH TWO-WAY COMMUNICATIONS with the receiving controller. If they do not get a response on that frequency in a few seconds (less than 30), they punch the radio number 1 button and go back and ask for the correct frequency. There is NO EXCUSE for losing radio contact at all, much less for almost an hour.
Read the lengthy he-said-he-said above submitted by our FlightAware colleague, jhwenger, then [color=red]Do the Math[/color]. The crew state that they had their laptops open for a combined total of 7 minutes! But they were out of communications from 7:23PM (CDT) to 8:14PM - a total of 51 minutes.
The assertion that ATC "lost" NWA188 is obviously made by somebody with no professional aviation background. And though I don't know what the WSJ said that applies to them as well.
When NWA188 physically entered the sector which they had been instructed to contact and that controller had not established two-way communications with the flight, the receiving sector will call the transferring sector and ask them to contact NWA188 and give him the correct frequency again. This happens every day and the transcript will bear this out.
There might be a [color=red]plausible[/color] reason for this incident to have occurred but, except for the [color=red]fell asleep[/color] option, I haven't heard one yet. What I find particularly interesting is how lawyers muddy-up the issue and generate sympathy (inserting church, community, teary FAA guy, son going in the army) for the perpetrators of what could have been a very real tragedy. The especially bad news is how many people fall for this crock.
Should these guys have their licenses permanently revoked? Not sure about the permanent part. Should they have told the truth from the get-go? Absolutely.
Here are the charges the FAA filed against the crew of NWA188.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilots-revocation-letter.pdf[/url]
Here is what the crew of NWA188 have to say in response to the FAA charges.
[url]http://www.avweb.com/pdf/nwa188_pilotappeals.pdf[/url]
Wonderful reminiscing Paul. All that and it's still "hard to have any sympathy for this crew"?
I spent many years on a/c with 3 up front and that was wonderful. All the more reason to "get real" now and cut those guys some slack. No emergency, no incident and no threat doesn't equal losing thier lively hood. All this PC stuff and armchair flying judgement makes me doubt the coming generations. Yeager and the Appolo guys would have been strung up for what they did with the sentiments expressed here and on the news.
I spent many years on a/c with 3 up front and that was wonderful. All the more reason to "get real" now and cut those guys some slack. No emergency, no incident and no threat doesn't equal losing thier lively hood. All this PC stuff and armchair flying judgement makes me doubt the coming generations. Yeager and the Appolo guys would have been strung up for what they did with the sentiments expressed here and on the news.
I wanted to add a footnote to my previous post and that is on the issue of the missing third member in todays cockpit crews. I operated in the days when an FE manned a separate panel behind the two pilots. Many were known then as PFEs which is to say they were professional flight engineers who though they could upgrade if they so chose could remain for their careers in the backseat on the panel. I can tell you from experience that on more than one occasion the FE pulled my behind out of the frying pan if by doing nothing more than uttering those immortal words when looking forward - what the *$%# is that? Such would likely have prevented the miscue a while back by the delta 76 crew (its been a bad year for delta) who were arriving at ATL from a South American departure point on a declared medical emergency (check airman onboard had taken inexplicably ill) in the early morning hours (minimal departure traffic) and when they stepped over from their precision monitored approach to RW27L (vmc) somehow, someway, they lined up with the parallel taxiway to RW27R and completed by the grace of God an otherwise uneventful landing thereon amidst all those blue lights! While FEs were the brunt of jokes about the calluses on their foreheads, the result of perpetually nodding off in flight - all joking aside - removal of the third set of eyeballs and more importantly removal of a third brain from the cockpit and replacing him/her with electronic gadgetry was in my humble opinion an unforgivable mistake. NASA proved 40 years ago on Apollo 13 that people not gadgetry made it the only successful failure in the history of manned spaceflight. My guess is that had an FE been on NWA 188 he/she would have said at some point hey, has anyone heard from center lately or are we there yet? In this case a curious flight attendant substituted for the FE but too late. Yes its true that airline pilots are probably the most scrutinized people in the world but its axiomatic that in whom much responsibility is placed, much is expected. Its funny but despite the stress of the pressures of the job, theres never been a shortage of applicants. End of story.