President Proposes $100 per flight fee for all flights in controlled airspace and a Passenger Facility Charge set by the DHS Secretary and increased "when necessary"

Sorry. Thought 'more' would let you see the whole fee provision from this screen. Dig into the link and it will bring up the President's Plan pdf. Scroll down to page 22 of the document and you'll see the aviation 'pay fors'.

Wonder where they are going to get their 11 billion from GA, when it's going to cease to exist, only the wealthy are going to fly. Mortals are going to avoid controlled space like the plague.

Soon there will be no more private flying, tax those who fly they must have more money than those poor people on welfare.They need the money so instead of flying give them that money. Yup equilze the incomes here it comes Damcrats left wing sobs at it again. Every time the BAMA opens his mouth the country suffers again tax his mouth take his wifes expensive clothing away from her stop her flying all over the world on vacations would help the budget. Make him stay here.

.............1 more year of this BS

Britt Hume said it well last night. These people (liberals) would rather "everybody be equally poor than some to be unequally wealthy". Except themselves of course.

What the left wing and many democrats fail to realize is that general aviation is NOT just those big million dollar jets. The only reason i have a 1957 172 is because it costs just as much as a car to buy, and i want to become a commercial pilot. It will be nearly impossible for me to move up through the licenses if i need to pay $100 every time i talk to ATC/ per flight. This could be why many students are turning away or not even bothering with learning to fly.

typo-"it will be nearly impossible for me to move up through the licenses if i need to pay $100 every time i talk to ATC/ per flight"
rephrase - "Every time i talk to ATC."

see how many cases of not talking to atc pop up after this....this is going to make it so unsafe

Anyone wants to bet 10 bucks that it will cost more than 1 Billion a year to run this new airspace collection bureaucracy? see TSA budget overruns & proposed fees increase.

Not to mention the cost barrier this will add to flight training and overall safety of Part 91 operations..

Plus it will add to airline ticket prices, not much but each and every new fee is another nail in the airline coffin.

The wording of "...recreational piston aircraft(and others) would be exempted" leads me to believe those other than commercial operators would be able to avoid the fee.

Yes, the Bloomberg article said this only applies to turbine aircraft and that private piston planes would not pay anything. Nor would air ambulances.

Yes, the Bloomberg article said this only applies to turbine aircraft and that private piston planes would not pay anything. Nor would air ambulances. Apparently Bush also proposed something similar and it was shot down (pardon the pun).

This again sounds like a very good reason to privatize the TSA. The individual airports would get a set fee per passenger and/or freight shipment. The TSA would be left with a few bureaucrats to set the standards and to provide oversight rather than expanding exponentially.

Canada's lead in privatizing their ATC has controlled costs without sacrificing quality. If there is to be some type of surcharge for ATC then it should be a single annual payment stratified by type and hours with a nominal fee for private piston on up to commercial passenger schedules as opposed to a toll system that will force many to fly VFR and the government response (for the dollars) to eliminate most uncontrolled space.

I certainly would not be opposed to a fee for GA in Class C and D airspace. I would also support a nominal fee for flying IFR, but I think that might lead some pilots to push the limits of VFR conditions in order to avoid the fee.

how about we just get rid of the ATC instead?

Ok, this is what I don't understand. If this bill is passed, less people will fly, this will cause a REDUCTION of jobs at class C and D airports, also flyers could simply avoid controlled airports causing less demand for Air Traffic Controllers. Airports actually bring in money, taxing which is already an expensive hobby of aviation, businesses that produce income is just not the answer. Those people on gov't welfare just need to try harder, which is a big cause of national deficit, not aviation.

UNSAFE...people will oppose this by not filing IFR and put people in danger on a regular basis. Flying in America is a beautiful thing. Different than any place on earth, and big government trying to wrap it's arms around every untapped last walk of life is not a realistic approach. As if GA wasn't already being strangled with high fuel fees and rising cost of operations. A fee to file is not a viable solution. It will be down right unsafe and irresponsible big government.

No one really knows what it means because there's no real language. All we have are these messaging talking points. Here's the language as written...

"This proposal would create a $100 per flight fee, payable to the FAA, by aviation operators who fly in controlled airspace. Military aircraft, public aircraft, recreational piston aircraft, air ambulances, aircraft operating outside of controlled airspace, and Canada-to-Canada flights would be exempted".

If this language became law as written the FAA and/or IRS lawyers who will have to design the regulations to implement it would say, "If they meant turbine, they would have said turbine. This doesn't say turbine." What the heck does recreational piston mean? Does that mean light sport? If someone flies a Mooney for business(simply for transportation, as they would use a rental car), is that a taxable event?

Here's what I do know, the aviation industry is a big source of employment for skilled labor. Until the Chinese take over this industry too, it remains a good export for us. This proposal is reckless and il-timed. The nascent recovery some industry folks were talking about at Oshkosh is sure to be set back. Even though it has NO CHANCE in the House, the proposal creates even more uncertainty in an industry struggling for stability.

Even if they finally clarify that they only mean turbines, how long until they come for us?

@fedexcargopilot: you are asking a question, but you have figured out what the people that have written this bill do not understand, and that is when the people that have a little extra money have to give it all away, there is no more money to give to the folks that expect something for nothing. All I can say is that I hope we can all survive til 2012

When I lived in Spain in the mid 90s', I was grateful for the GA freedoms and savings we enjoyed over our Europeans counterparts back then. Renting an airplane was almost triple the cost. You had to file a flight plan just to stay in the pattern and pay for it too. Forget walking to your airplane anywhere on any field w/o being checked and questioned. You have to walk through airport security every time you want to fly. When the tower is closed, airports don't exist anymore unless you are an airliner. And, of course, there are at least 3X times more government employees working at the smaller airports too with little to do most of the time since GA activity is practically non-existent.
Now, America is fast accelerating toward a similar European model with this ridiculous business killing proposal. But, then again, what else can you expect from politicians who have never owned businesses of their own.

If I am reading this right a corporate jet's cost would go from $60 a flight to $100. An additional 40 bucks..Cry me a river please...

"a large commercial aircraft would pay
between $1,300 to $2,000 in taxes for a flight
from Los Angles to San Francisco while a corporate
jet flying the same route and using the
same Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
air traffic services would pay about $60 in
taxes. To reduce the deficit and more equitably
share the cost of air traffic services across the
aviation user community, the Administration
proposes to establish a new mandatory surcharge
for air traffic services. This proposal
would create a $100 per flight fee,"

This provision will definitely have a major impact on general aviation. I dont think this jobs bill along with all the hidden provisions will pass the senate or house. The good thing is that there are many representatives and senators that are general aviation pilots and I dont think they want to pay to use controlled airspace. AOPA will be fighting heavily against these senseless provisions. We all need to contact our representatives and senators to address this issue. Obama and his crew added hidden provisions to the health care bill, and this jobs bill is no different.He certainly did not make mention of the aviation provision, during his so called speech, promoting this bill. Also there was no mention of cutting back on welfare and all the money wasted that could easily be transferred to the Aviation fund.

all that hope and change is really working well...now isn't folks? what did people think they were going to get with a socialist marxist??1984 revisited....we're all equal but some are more equal then others.

We are hopeing his change will not screw aviation forever! (sorry hit post by mistake)

absurd. I'm sure they will put a HOBBS meter in the lav and tax people for taking a dump! To levy taxes in times like these is bad, terrible for create jobs and what not. smoke and mirrors! they tried doing what this article is speaking about in other countries and has totally back fired! Enough with this malarkey!

If they get their foot in the door - It is only a matter of time that it will cover a J3 over the hills of rural Tennessee.

@Charles L: I believe it was Mrs. Palin that said something to that effect sometime back. Not sure exactly who will be out there but the silent majority don't need to let the vocal majority have their way in 2012. They need to wake up and speak out!!!!!!!!!!! just sayin' and I put in my time in 'Nam to earn the right to proffer that opinion, regardless of whether it offends somebody or not as it did a few days ago in another thread.

It's up to the American voters to rid ourselves of the menace in Washington & the Whitehouse.

If these keep going on General Aviation It's making me change my mind on getting my private pilots license in which I always dreamed of having and flying are Government ruins everything while they use our resources for free on us..

Is there a way to recall Obama right now or do we have to wait until the election to vote him out? I'm not sure there's going to be anything left by then. I'm sorry but the guy is clueless when it comes to aviation (and most other things).

And to think that 40 odd percent of the people in the US think that Obama is the neatest thing since sliced bread. Shows what a country of idiots the US has become.

I am against this. I will not be voting for Obammy in 2012. I hope Ron Paul wins the primary because he is the only candidate that wants to bring our troops out of WWIII (America v Iraq, Iran, N.Korea, Palestine, Libya, Cuba, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan) before rasing taxes. Limit the number of children welfare parents can have, and cut back entitlements. We don't need to raise taxes, we need to cut spending. I can't believe I voted for Obammy the first election. That's a mistake I won't be doing again!!!!!!

First he doomed NASA, and now he wants to doom aviation altogether. Why tax people who fly? We create tons of jobs by flying. All these taxes are just going to reduce the flying public, thus cutting jobs.

Ron Paul 2012.

Left wing is stalling out again trying to spin us into the ground and kill aviation. 1 more year of this BS hopefully

Brain don't give up on getting your private ticket it is one of the most rewarding things you can ever do. Trust me I just got mine after working on it and paying out of pocket for it. Took me 2 years and there was a 9 month gap of not flying. But I tell you something it is a sweet feeling to have the freedom to go fly when and where I want.

like a freaking hehaw circus forum... from your local proud pilot socialist.

@Jayden H:At least you have saw the light.lol

Thanks teabaggers. Now he's grasping at straws to raise revenue. Cant wait for all the other "fees" we will have to endure since nobody on the right wants to deal with "taxes"

Did you notice that the "solution" for some is always to raise taxes on the productive to support the parasitic non productive (which includes many of our government employees plus the 45% that contribute nothing)?

We never hear that spending should be cut, only that the rest of us should be more like New York, California and Illinois. We obviously are not spending enough money on the Solyndras so that when 20 or 30 coal and nuclear plants are shut down by the junk science EPA, we will all buy windmills for our yards and the money can be laundered for reelection of the socialists that brought us that disaster. Lets hire another 200,000 government union employees to administer more sub prime home mortgages and protect the snail darter. We can always get those rich GA guys to pay more...at least until they stop flying.

Meanwhile we can always sit back and call responsible citizens from the productive class names like racists, bigots, homophobes...or teabaggers. Ya, that will fix them.

Give up the political non-sense. GW Bush initiated the call for user fees. Obama initially was opposed to them. I am against user fees, no question, but stop the revisionist history.