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FAA proposes new flight deck barrier after unruly passengers grab headlines

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The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) on Wednesday said it is proposing a new requirement that would protect the flight deck by adding a second barrier as unruly passengers continue to make headlines. (www.foxbusiness.com) और अधिक...

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d0ugparker
Doug Parker 12
It bothers me that we talk about it from the starting point of the identified problem, itself, going foreword, but not the things that got us into the problem in the first place.

...like what kind of missing, "inside job" work on the part of the unruly passengers have resulted in those passengers becoming *unruly?* It's wordy, and it's a bit cumbersome, it's more psychology than hardware and technology, but I hope everyone gets the point.

Right now it's:

1) Unruly passengers? 2) put something on the flight deck to control the unruly passengers.

What if it were *blame the culture and its poor personal tool sets, and target the people:*

1) unruly passengers? 2) why doesn't the culture teach individuals the tools and awareness to assess their personal "lack of patience" or "lack of consideration" or "judgmental attitude" since those are found to be key factors that trigger unruly passengers who don't have them.

Yeah, there's something missing: not in the flight deck, but between people's ears.


It bothers me, too, that this observation being lacking doesn't seem to be bothering many others.
d0ugparker
Doug Parker 1
Replying to my own post, how... self-serving.

The culture wants to externalize everything. I see greater good coming from teaching everyone to target their insides, like I did in the second approach, above, and having a better balance of both our insides *and* our outsides.

“It’s an inside job.”
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 15
FA's should train with a rodeo and learn how to hog tie. That will bring all this nonsense to a quick stop.
augerin
Dave Mathes 9

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

musocat
James Patterson 5
Have any unruly passengers breached any cockpit doors?
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 5
ANOTHER LAYER of security??
Wanna build a prison fortress for the cockpit?
Brick walls and Barbwire! Guard dogs, and their handlers ??
How dumb!!
Instead, You penalize the dim-wits for causing problems on an airplane!! Make it a very SEVERE CRIME-- if the pilots have to declare an Emergency, and land early...you are forced to reimburse the Airline for all of the expenses. That's right! You are charged with a crime, and NEVER to be allowed to ride on public transportation ever again.
Your future wages garnished to pay back the airline, and if you can't pay-- the Government gets to hold a giant Garage sale, and sell all of your crap!
We need to stop playing nice with these Assholes, and drop some harsh reality on them.
Sooner or later the word will get out the you don't start trouble on U.S. Airlines.
LeanderWilliams
Leander Williams 2
The problem I see is that in the USA they have been allowing some of these jerks back on aircraft after having been on the no-fly list. Who wants to bet that some of these unruly people are repeat offenders.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 2
Yes, if we allow these cretins back on-board an aircraft, then it is us that hasn't learned the lesson. And you can't fix stupid.
There is a reason for the No-Fly list, and these less-then-intelligent folks need to be placed at the top of it!
If there are "repeat offenders"
then we are the less-then-intelligent folks I'm talking about.
augerin
Dave Mathes 4
...'airbunnys' in the house...welcome back troll...

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

augerin
Dave Mathes 7
...what makes you think I was referring to you...got a bit of an ego huh?...
ThinkingGuy
George Lane 4
I'd really like to see more details on this. The rules appear to be here:

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/installation-and-operation-flightdeck-installed-physical-secondary-barriers-transport

..but the FAA's website doesn't seem to be responding at the moment.
Propwash122
Peter Fuller 1
I just got that link to respond. Language in the proposal: “This proposed rule would apply to transport category airplanes manufactured two years after the effective date of a final rule.”
So…this is not going to be implemented quickly, and the proposal does not contemplate retrofitting the existing fleet.
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 1
augerin
Dave Mathes 3
...how about installing seats with auto lockdown features like on amusement rides...
Rosomak
Rosomak 13
Stop serving alcohol at airport restaurants and to pax while onboard. Would go a long way in solving the problem
prestontoborg
Preston Toborg 3
Partially this. Airports like Denver started allowing to-go alcohol which caused some problems... All to make the city more money which in turn screwed the system.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 3
Why penalize everyone (especially those who can handle their alcohol) from drinking responsibly?
This is what is wrong w/ the World--
A few Assholes ruin it for every body else! I say this because
1) I do not drink, and
2) People who haven't committed a crime should not have their rights taken away from them.
You should be allowed to drink, as long as you are responsible for your actions.
I hope Rosomak, you realize that your suggestion has a lot of wrong issues behind it.
Think Responsible Freedom
wrangler41
Mark Rosenthal 1
Substitute Guns for alcohol and you see exactly what pro gunners say !
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 2
I am not sure those pax are the problem. Many people get drunk and stupid before the airport, and are the biggest danger. Who can afford a drunk at airport prices, anyhow? Then again there the ones that are just crazy and don't need a drink to go out of control. Many are named Ken or Karen.
Jaime1949
Jaime Terrassa 0

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

rcarlass
Rob Carlassara 4
Lifetime ban on all airlines in the US and a trip to a psych ward for treatment. Problem solved.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 2
Ban them from ANY type of public transportation.
dalej2
Dale Johnson 2
design like the Israel commercial planes. They know how to protect the cockpit.
srobak
srobak 2
The flight deck has had barriers and protective protocol since 9/11. The service carts have interlocks on them which prevent them from being rolled out of the way easily when being used as a barrier. They would have to be climbed over. The cockpit doors are double reinforced and locked. There has not been a single flight deck incursion since 9/11.

To add to that - "unruly passengers" is currently at it's lowest number in almost 3 years - while we are also now at the height of passenger travel since covid. For the FAA to be responding to this _now_ is ludicrous, and far too late. This is no longer an issue. For those of you getting ready to say "well what about next time there are mandates...?" - it's simple: Don't let there be stupid & ineffective mandates.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq7IWwQW8AIfFRG.jpg
LeanderWilliams
Leander Williams 1
The problem with unruly passengers is that most of them think they are entitled just because they paid for a ticket. Maybe the airlines should remove alcohol from aircraft. Air marshalls need refresher training.
zulu1953
K R 1
They are entitled. They are entitled to be treated properly: even the poor people in economy. Jamming people together (physically touching) for long duration should not be considered to be "proper treatment". Their are serious consequences to the mental stability of humans when you do this. Each and every airlines and a/c manufactures in the US was warned about these mental health issues when they were deciding fuselage design, seat design and seat configuration. They also warned that the average US humans is getting larger over generations and that this needed to be taken into account at the design phase. Did Boeing did not listen (Airbus did) and no US based airlines listened either. This mental health issue was CAUSED by Boeing and AA and Delta and United. SWA took some notice. The FAA turned a blind eye as they did with Boeing certification. Certainly alcohol has an effect; since it lowers inhibitions it leads to people who otherwise would be fearful of complaining into complaining; but also lowers their ability to talk coherently about their complaint. Incoherence does not make the complaint in any way invalid; it just serves to make the listener look incompetent.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

zulu1953
K R 1
Blame the customer for your problems. Its a common human response to criticism of their performance. In all the successful companies management reject it completely as a valid argument. The correct to the "blame" statement: "The customer is always right". I used to add a addendum; when staff asked me - how can anyone be right all of the time? "The customer is always right, even when they are wrong". For your information FAA. Your customers are the ones that fund your salary (the passengers); not the payment clerks that pay you - the US Government, or the Airlines that you are there to regulate.
dalej2
Dale Johnson 1
http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/aviation:el-al-the-world-s-most-secure-airline
dalej2
Dale Johnson 2
El-al you behave yourself or else. Also cockpit is enclosed with kevlar doors. Preboard screening is extensive. Yes, it has come to this. Humans have taken air travel for granted. American air travel should take Israel's lead. Enough of these who want to disrupt a commercial airliner.
hangar14
Rick D 1
Is this another barrier to prevent access to the cockpit (which has not been a problem since change after 911) or an extra barrier for the cabin crew to retreat to?
113312
ellis chernoff 1
We airline pilots have been pushing for a secondary cockpit door for more than 20 years. Now the FAA wants it to sound like they just thought this up.
skylab72
skylab72 1
Why so alarmist? the ONLY graph presented had a long-term declining trend...
aaronei
aaron Eisengart 1
Wait a minute.....After 9/11 when were the pilots ever involved with unruly passengers during a flight in their cockpit????? I think their going after the wrong people. Its time to look at the flight attendants. But I think they know that passengers were upset about those masks and they're probably trying to brush that aside!!!!!!!
zulu1953
K R 1
Yes; lets hear from the pax how poorly the cabin crew dealt with this customer interaction. But the buck stops at the top. What about the senior management agreement to turn economy into true "cattle to the slaughter trucks'. They should be asked to resign their positions since without any doubt they encouraged these situations to exist; putting the health and safety of all humans on a/c at risk.
aaronei
aaron Eisengart 1
Of course even now that masks are a goner now. Those flight attendants aint gona be safe without some medieval knight armor!!!!! LOL!!!!
ed7778
Dennis Stockton 1
That's not all unruly passengers grab.
augerin
Dave Mathes 1
...wow air bunny...-53 on one post in less than 24hrs.....well done!!
k1121j
k1121j 1
Well this is stupid. I can see protecting the pilots but the flight crew?!? So the plan is to let the passengers deal with chaos while the crew hides behind blast doors..... Someone please explain the logic here. Gees you might as well hitch a ride with your local sheriff in a cruiser if this is the plan for airlines....
royhunte92
Roy Hunte 6
Ummmmmmm, pilots are flight crew, the others are cabin crew...
zulu1953
K R 1
Sort of. The cabin crew is a sub-set of the flight crew (the crew required on an a/c to allow a flight to proceed and fly from A to B per the companies commitment to its customers). The pilots are another sub-set. As are the flight engineers (now not required for many a/c).
withersfamily
Lee Withers 4
The writer bobbled when they switched from talking about flight deck to flight crew which you interpreted as cabin crew-or something like that.
Mike101361
Lloyd Sharp 1
claytonb27
Clayton Burton 0
Couldn’t be anymore right
ms06877
ms06877 1
How long ago was 9/11? Should have been proposed on 9/12 !
LeanderWilliams
Leander Williams -1
Hey, just have some tear gas or pepper spray cannisters by the cockpit door, and if idiots [including hijackers] get too unruly, give 'em a couple of shots of tear gas or pepper spray through that bulkhead.
waypoint66
David Rice 3
Dispensing tear gas in a pressurized, air recycling, aluminum tube, at altitude. Hummmm. What could go wrong? Batter up for the Darwin Award.
DonDengler
DonDengler -5
It has taken 21 years to figure this out ???????

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