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American Eagle to Change Name to Envoy

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The name change was necessary because American Airlines has contracted with other regional carriers, such as Republic Airways, to fly routes between smaller cities using the American Eagle brand name. To lessen confusion, the subsidiary owned by American currently called American Eagle decided to change its name but will still use the American Eagle brand and livery on its planes. (www.star-telegram.com) और अधिक...

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blueashflyer
blueashflyer 13
AA signed contracts with other regionals to use the American Eagle brand. So the real American Eagle has to change its name to ENVOY, but will still use the same brand and livery on its planes.

HOW DOES THIS LESSEN CONFUSION?
panam1971
panam1971 2
The contract flights have "American Connection" on the planes. The tail logo is all blue.
drdisque
Ben Deneweth 0
Not anymore, only the Chautauqua flights currently say American Connection. Aircraft operated by Skywest, Expressjet, and Republic say American Eagle.
panam1971
panam1971 1
onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 2
I don't even look at the livery when boarding a regional flight anymore.....looking at all of that chipped paint makes me think about maint.....lol.....they shouldn't be confused anyway; all of the info they need is on the boarding pass and if for some reason the flight and the gate don't match up the agent usually tells you.
winga34
Cameron Mitchell 2
saso792
saso792 2
Somebody is getting the cart before the horse on this one. I saw in the article where it said, "On Friday, American Eagle’s pilots union reached a new agreement that freezes pay....".

I spoke with some American Eagle pilots today and they say that they have NOT reached a new agreement that freezes pay and in fact, they have not even seen the new agreement to vote on it yet. Further more, they don't believe it will pass if there is a freeze in pay. They do not plan on flying more passengers and larger planes for the same money they make now in their current livery. They also said they have not been notified of the name being changed to Envoy.

Somebody is blowing smoke somewhere............... I can't believe Douggy Boy and Miss Donna expect them to fly bigger planes and make the company more money for the same pay. Hello Doug, this is the way it works. Larger planes with more paying passengers, equals more pay for the pilots. (I hope that was slow enough for him to read. Maybe I should have put in in caps.)

Well that is the story from the working pilots today.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
I hope they increase pay, particularly on the low end.

That said, with today's high fuel costs, the smaller planes are not profitable to operate. So without a change, in the future those flights will end.

So..
small plane = no job
Slightly bigger small plane = job

Take your pick.

At the higher end, regionals' pilot pay overlaps with mainline pilots pay scales. At the bottom, however, the pay's quite thin.

With teeny weeny planes, there just isn't any money to pay more. But with a mix that has more larger planes can allow regionals to pay starter wages that are higher, and allow them to recruit more pilots when they feel the squeeze in the near future between the 1500 hour rule on the one end and the mainline airlines hiring away their pilots on the other.
Lunarstorm777
(v)e Same 2
Well that clears everything up..... Here I thought this might get confusing.
gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
Republic has a beautiful game plan. They went off of it when they bought Frontier. Now they are back to the fixed fee plan. They don't buy fuel. They use the mainline gate agents. All they have to do is fix'em and fly'em. Maintain the schedule. What could be easier? You know your cost and income stream beforehand.
iflyrjs
terry gersdorf 1
Only problem with Republic is they can't fly the routes they are contracted to do out of ORD I cant count how many times in one week they cancel flights too ATL because of no crew. On their maiden flight from ORD the flight was 3 1/2 hrs late because of no crew....
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 1
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
It's only going to get worse.

With the new rest rules, plus the 1500 hour rule combined with the low starting paying, the regionals will find themselves short.

That fits nicely with the fact that these small flights have a high per seat cost. The mainline airlines who pay on a per flight basis will want every seat filled.

So delays and cancellations help fill greater numbers of regional plane seats, and means fewer nearly-empty planes are flying lots of empty seats around.
gearup328
Peter Steitz 2
Yeah, nobody is factoring in this new 10 hour rest in the hotel rule. Used to be you were in rest 15 minutes after chocking--still in the airport and still had to wait for the crew bus and then check in. No longer! You have to have a scheduled 10 hour rest in the hotel. I haven't seen all the rules but there is probably a provision for some sort of reduced rest. Or is this like the 16 hour duty day--you're can't even fly your last leg if you can't complete it and not go over 16 hours--period.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 1
Wonder why they did not opt for "American Envoy"?
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
They already have the American Eagle and American Connection brands.

They don't need another brand for their regional service. But they needed to give the regional airline a name that was NOT an American regional brand. The airline is just one of many that fulfill the job of subcontracting American's regional service.

At this time, they are a wholly-owner subsidiary. But that could change. They did have the airline on the market. They reported that it was not sold because they couldn't find a buyer. Again, these are temporal characteristics that can change with time.
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 1
chris13
Chris Bryant 1
The real question is, will their call sign change?
preacher1
preacher1 2
idk. Pinnacle changed their name to ENDEAVOR but even under PINNACLE had and still has the call sign of FLAGSHIP.
pfp217
pfp217 1
I always had to think who I was hearing on the radio. "Flagship" was Express I/Pinnacle etc , but I always thought of Flagship Airlines (coincidentally an old American Eagle carrier)
preacher1
preacher1 1
I always wondered how they came up with that. They had it clear back in the NWA days when Pinnacle was their primary regional.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Pinnacle Changed to Endeavor to cover up the bankruptcy... thinking people are a stupid enough not to realize it.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 2
Bankruptcy concerns? It's hard to find an airline that hasn't gone through bankruptcy or experienced financial difficulties.
preacher1
preacher1 2
They still flying though and buying new planes so I really doubt anybody will care. LOL
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
That was just their reasoning... Delta wanted to erase any memories of Pinnacle. Many people believe that is one of the main reasons for the move to MSP from MEM.
preacher1
preacher1 1
That is possible but with Mesaba management and DAL having all that NWA property up there, it was probably just natural.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
It was not a Pinnacle buy out of Mesaba... What a lot of people did not realize and putting the pieces together, it was a master plan of Delta for a Hostel Take over and it worked. Only one thing did not go as planned and that was Colgan.

Pinnacle was making plenty of money and then they were basically force/coerced into purchasing Mesaba... Once that happened with the help of Delta they pushed Mesaba upper management into position and fired or forced retired upper Pinnacle Maintenance. At this point, Delta told Pinnacle that they must close down Colgan an all ties to other airlines if they wanted to continue doing business with Delta. In precise movements they forced Pinnacle to put the 11 900's that they already owned and paid in full, then Delta gave them to other Delta Carriers. Delta also around that time elected to shutdown Comair (most of those planes still flying, you will note them with CA as the 2 letters in the tail number). Comair made Delta upset because they went out on strike and hurt the company. Delta then manuvered Pinnacle into in to Bankruptcy and losing them money to stay a float. At the end of the Bankruptcy, Delta gave them more money and told them with this, we now own you as a part of Delta.

With all the legacy of COMAIR out of the way they now have Pinnacle or Now called Endeavor as a wholy owned regional to enable them to control the cost and are now adding new CRJ-900's to their fleet and parking most of the CRJ-200's.

Changing the name to Endeavor Air really makes no since to me, the Name Challenger Air would be much better... After all the CRJ's corporate version of the Challenger.

Most people won't care, but most do not know what really happened either...
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
It didn't make sense until you explained that they created Endeavor over time as a lower-cost replacement for Comair.

I'll research this when I get a chance. But your explanation was both informative, and makes a lot of sense (even if you are not fully convinced).
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
I am convinced... Wa there for all of it... It was ugly inside and they kept it covered up... But it was a very brutal take over...
preacher1
preacher1 1
I got to vouch for him. He was in MEM MCO when it all started and did not move to MSP last year, but just finished up about 6-7 months of TDY back and forth to MSP. The whole transition was trashy. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. DAL is hubbing at MSP now instead of MEM. Folks in ATL are nice and warm and don't care, and folks at MSP like the snow.
winga34
Cameron Mitchell 0
If they do it won't be Encore, WestJet Encore already owns that one
tf51d
Thomas Cain 2
The new name is Envoy not Encore
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Endeavor.
Envoy.
Encore.

It's going to be confusing.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
And one or more will license:
Eagle.
justinoclemente
justin chavez 1
Are there pilots still going to be paid poverty wages?
clipper759
joe johnson 2
No. That's way too much for regional rodents. Douggy has sent over an even more concessionary contract that implies some possible "growth" if the rodents comply.

Thanks Douggy.
preacher1
preacher1 2
LOL, but you better watch out, Miss Donna will flame you for talking bad about Douggy Boy.
clipper759
joe johnson 0
Bring it. I'm sure he thought it up at the bar. Hopefully this time he brought his designated driver.
mcmahon105
Tom Ewing 1
Regardless of the name it is still a lowsy airline. The have more excuses for late flight, flights: attendant caught in traffic, hose to deice truck broken, push cart for the plane broken, luggage tag fell off bag-can't leave until the find the owner, jetway broken have to wait turn, too cold to handle bags, crew on another flight, and the best... No idea- just late! All of these in the last 6 weeks. The employees look shell shocked and are resigned to the problems. I guess I am lucky, I am on flights two days a week, they have to deal with it everyday!!!
TXCAVU
Elizabeth Robillard 3
Tom...when you work on the airline side and work with the usual things which can occur to equipment, people, weather,et al...THEN you can make comment. Whatever business you are in, it requires many factors/departments/people to provide the services. Add to that the FAA, Safety Contract riders, weather and other factors which govern and control the operation of an airline. You , the passenger, see one side. There are many factors which affect SAFE flight. So YOU can arrive at your destination safely and so that the people/equipment required to get you there are SAFE. We term "Safety First".

Finally...the word "lowsy" is misspelled. If aviation professional misspell something, the results make the news. You toss out a rant and it tells those who read that you put out complaints before having thought the matter through. If we flew like you complain...
preacher1
preacher1 2
iflyrjs
terry gersdorf 1
All on one flight maybe you should take greyhound next time
ssjan
ssjan 0
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

American announces name change to wholly-owned regional airline

A year after saying that it would change the name of its wholly-owned regional airline, American has announced what American Eagle Airlines will change its name to. It's definitely not what was expected, and is surely unconventional — not to mention conflicting with a high-end product at the company.

http://jansaviation.com/news.php?art=american-announces-name-change-to-wholly-owned-regional-airline
moldenhd
Dan Moldenhauer 0
Nowadays, average pax boarding the sardine sleds just think they're getting on an "American Airlines" flight anyways (even if it is a regional), so as long as it's still mostly white in color, smells old, and continues to arrive late, they're not going to notice a thing has changed, except maybe prices.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -1
I guess Eagle has such a bad name that that have to cover things up... Dumb move.. People see through that.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
They're actually licensing the Am. Eagle brand to multiple airlines flying regional for American, including the former American Eagle (wholly-owne subsidiary).

Seems more like a restructuring. They didn't spin off American Eagle, but they could.

My guess is that Douggie decided that either:
1) the American Eagle subsidiary is profitable enough to keep
or
2) the costs of selling it would be too great, whether in labor relations or otherwise.

But they're keeping the brand AND using it with other regional airlines.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Horton never did find a suitable buyer for Eagle, hence no spin off. I think it was just slated to die a natural death and routes contracted. You are correct in that Douggie boy has stopped that, for whatever reason.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Makes sense. If they're going to need to hire thousands of pilots over the next few years, they might as well keep the ones they have.

The feeder flying can be incrementally offloaded to regional subcontractors, matching the need to poach their own regional pilots for mainline service. They can even make the planes available to one or more regional airlines serviing their feeder routes.

The use of regional airlines to operate feeder routes is all about lowering staffing costs. So the mainline airline can own the brand, the plane, and everything but the employees and they still get the benefit of the regionals' lower wages.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Well, with that FLOWTHROUGH process, it should level out the pilot need and give some incentive for a young man to start there, having a way to advance and be part of their in house training as well. It will probably turn out to be a decent move. While not as public, DAL owns Pinnacle(Endeavor) and is expanding it. With their future pilot needs, they may be looking at the same thing.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
Well, if they want to keep a regional operator in-house strategically, that would be a perfectly good way to look at it.

But they could've not sold it because they need the pilots. They might not have been able to sell the company, if their pilots are paid more than other regionals (which is likely).

At the same time, the company's biggest weakness in a potential sale - the pilots (specifically their pay) becomes a huge benefit when the division is kept, and raided to provide a fresh supply of pilots for the mainline.

The regional division can be shit down gradually, as pilots are absorbed into the mainline operation as needed. The regional operation could be farme out to a long list of eager regionals, that could likely provide the service at a lower cost than keeping the regional operation in-house.

So if they're not going to get paid for the company (not what it would be worth - the value of the planes and the cost to AA of acquiring a similar number of pilots), they might as well keep the greatest asset, which is the supply of pilots. They can realize the improved financials of farming out the regional work more gradually, as the balance of regional work moves to outside contracts. But they'll keep their pilots. Seems like a fair deal.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
* The regional division can be SHUT down gradually...

[the other thing is possible too]
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, they must be planning on keeping it awhile with the new plane order and Endeavor is taking delivery on a bunch of CRJ900's so DAL probably looking at the same thing.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
I'm not sure which way they're going with that. But you may run into Dallas folks who would have a better idea.

The plane order was from before the decision to forget about selling the company.

The company can choose to own a bunch of new planes and lease them to the regionals that operate for them. Thus way they can keep a consistent hard product, and put out for bid to get the lowest cost to operate them.
pilot23
pilot23 -1
All I have to say is..... REALLY AA. (Former Comair, Mesaba, REG Elite, DL). Endeavor is a broken cloak. It's still Pinnacle in the employees eyes and the public. You can't just change names and call it new. AA is about pull off a typical move of the majors.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
You are about right all of that.. I agree.
PhotoFinish
PhotoFinish 1
You guys are soaking like insiders who have cashes checks with one or another name.

The only name the public sees is Delta connection or American Eagle, if that. Mostly is it just Delta or American.

They'll say, "I'm flying American." They look for the Delta terminal when driving themselves, or just say the name of the major when asked by the shuttle or taxi driver.

Most people won't realize that the same regional airline will fly for a different major that the one they've been ticket through. In some rare cases, a regional plane may fly in for one brand, then turn around and fly out for another.

लॉगिन

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